Half measures?

[nick]

I understand that certain intruments of penance such as the cilice chain are worn for short periods, say two hours, whilst the wearer can in theory go about their daily business. Presumably, although the discomfort is always there, the wearers are not always thinking they are suffering in solidarity with christ or about redemptive sacrifice. I take vigourous, physical, sometimes painful exercise, mostly in the form of running. Is this a form of penance? Or am I trying to get away with half measures?

[MARK65]

Half measures Nick !! ...Why dont you run wearing a cilice.

[alex001]

I think the question for me would be "what is the primary purpose of my exercise"? If it is to get an adrenaline/endorphine buzz, or for reasons of vanity or for balancing up gluttony, then it presumably wouldn't be the same as a form of suffering which was _primarly_ penitential in nature?

Perhaps the practice of using cilices/hairshirts is more likely to be primarly penitential in nature?

A

[nick]

but what if I am running/exercising with the correct intentions? ie what if i eat sensibly and am not bothered by my physical appearance? what then?

[alex001]

That's a reasonable question - but I don't know the answer!

[atonement]

If I may ask a question do you actually go running with the intention of bringing yourself closer to God nick? If not, then I think I would have to come down on the 'less than full measures' side of the argument. If however you perform your excercise in a spirit of contemplative humility, I beg forgiveness. I have been known to run and my experience does not lend me to think the latter is te case. Am I banned?

[MARK65]

Am I banned?

I reckon your close to promotion

[mark]

My view would be that if your intention in running is to do penance, that is to put your body through discomfort and pain to atone for your sins and to remind you of the suffering and passion of Our Lord, and for that reason only, then yes. but I respectfully suggest that because running can be a pleasurable experience as well you would need to examine your thoughts on this very carefully before regarding it as true penance.

I suggest that a lot of prayer would be needed about this maybe.

[lynch]

hi nick - yes, this is an interesting thought, but I too feel myself erring on the 'half measures' side of things

I don't run myself, due to damaged knees (not due to an excess of prayer I hasten to add) but have recently started to ride a bike. My motives? - to get fit, to enjoy the fresh air, and, if I'm honest, there is also an element of wanting to keep in shape (visually) ... an element of vanity...

I have found, as a rather unfit person at present, that the process of climbing the numerous hills around my home to be profoundly painful, and did ask myself, "could I turn this pain to spiritual ends?" - well maybe, a bit...

However, the problem with this, for me, is twofold:

1. It was pride and pride alone that got me to the top of the hill - I did not want to appear/feel weak; I did not want to be seen pushing my bike etc...
2. The motives behind the whole cycling enterprise are, for me, ultimately self seeking - not in an overtly negative sense. Perhaps there is spiritual value in treating the body with 'respect' - not damaging it permanently with excessive eating, drinking etc - keeping clean and so on...

There seems to be, in the notion of 'penance', an idea of 'negating' or 'denying' the flesh, rather than prioritising it...

[nick]

I ran 15.6 miles on Tuesday, don't tell me thats not penance. Oops was that a bit of pride