Mortal sins of Anger

[Mariepierre]

Blue Tit,

You might consider making a bit out of barbed wire and using it when you commit sin of the tongue. Saying the rosary while using this device is very helpful.

[Mariepierre]

Blue Tit,

You might consider making a bit out of barbed wire and using it when you commit sin of the tongue. Saying the rosary while using this device is very helpful.

[scott-m]

Hi Mariepierre,
I too have anger issues and am interested in the barbed wire penance you recommend. Forgive my ignorance but exactly how would you "make a bit out of barbed wire"? I too can certainly use something to curtail my angry responses. Thanks for your help.
Scott

[Blue Tit]

yes please, I didn't understand very well neither...

[PenitentElaine]

Blue Tit,

You might consider making a bit out of barbed wire and using it when you commit sin of the tongue. Saying the rosary while using this device is very helpful.

The thought of wearing a bit of barbed wire is frightening to me. Perhaps that is only the weakness of my spirit. I understand how it would be both fitting and effective penance.

Elaine

[Scholastica]

Blue Tit,

You might consider making a bit out of barbed wire and using it when you commit sin of the tongue. Saying the rosary while using this device is very helpful.

The thought of wearing a bit of barbed wire is frightening to me. Perhaps that is only the weakness of my spirit. I understand how it would be both fitting and effective penance.

Elaine

This is only my opinion, so if anyone disagrees, they don't have to take any notice of it.

In my view there are some penances, even very painful penances, which are chastening to the soul, and which bring great peace and sweetness to the spirit. Because of this sweetness, there is always a temptation to go further, particularly if we do not have effective spiritual direction.

All of which then begs the question, how far can we legitimatly go? At what point do we step over the line from chastening the body to desecrating the temple of the Holy Spirit?

Clearly, each of us must find the answer for ourselves. For me, the answer has been, that there must be nothing that causes blood to be lost. The reason for this is that in the OT blood is very sacred, and does not belong to man; it belongs only to God. If a sacrifice is offered, the blood is given to the Lord. The life of any animal is considered to be contained in its blood, and that life belongs only to God.

This symbolism carried into the Crucifixion, and the Eucharist. In giving his blood on the cross, Christ gave his life. In offering it to us in the Eucharist, he shares his life with us.

Because of this symbolism, I think it is sensible to keep away from anything such as barbed wire, which may pierce the skin and draw blood, and incidentally risk tetanus. I think there might be a case for the crown of thorns (but preferably made from thorns, not metal), because this is a distinct penance in its own right, for those who embrace it, but barbed wire is a very different matter. Imo it is an offensive product, created initially to be used in warfare, and as such I think ought not to be brought into our penetential practices.

As I said, this is just my opinion; feel free to disagree.

If anyone wants to curb their tongue, vinegar or lemon juice is a perfectly adequate way to do it, although acid is not good for the teeth, so do rinse with water afterwards. Alternatively, in preference to this, take on a penance of silence; speak only when spoken to, and only in necessity or charity. Otherwise, remain silent before God. Do this for as long as it takes to learn self control.

Sometimes the most simple solutions are the best, I think.

[Blue Tit]

Hi Scholastica,
I agree with you when talking about blood fleeding, but you shall notice that when using barbed-wire or such items (I never used it but my metallic cilice does the same, I guess), no blood really pours. It can only make some little bloody points, as if you had stung yourself with a very fine needle, and most of the time it doesn't bleed at all.
But did you understand what MariePierre means by "a bit of barbed wire" ? She hasn't answered our questions yet, and I don't really know what she means (is it to make a cilice, around waist or arm or thigh, with barbed wire ? I don't know)

This kind of method worked with Blaise Pascal, if I remember well. He used to wear a waist cilice with little metallic points, and when he felt tempted to do a sin (anger, pride, etc.) he discretly moved to make this belt hurt him...so he could avoid the sin !

I wish it would be so easy for me, unfortunately it doesn't work fine with anger, because these sins aren't "premeditate" and I don't have enough time to realize I'm going to offend God. If only I had, I wouldn't do it, obviously.
Perhaps I should seriously try Blaise's method, and it would be efficient after some time ?

[Sisterrose]

I think that MariePierre is talking about making a "bit" out of barbed wire. A "bit" is something you put in a horses mouth that is attached to the reigns. It is meant to control the horse. I think she is suggesting you take a piece of barbed wire and make it so that it fits in your mouth from end to end (from the corner of your mouth to the other corner of your mouth) and pray the Rosary aloud. Moving your lips and tongue would be quite uncomfortable because they would keep coming into and going out of contact with the barbed wire. I may be wrong....but I think this was her meaning.

[Maravillas]

I think that MariePierre is talking about making a "bit" out of barbed wire. A "bit" is something you put in a horses mouth that is attached to the reigns. It is meant to control the horse. I think she is suggesting you take a piece of barbed wire and make it so that it fits in your mouth from end to end (from the corner of your mouth to the other corner of your mouth) and pray the Rosary aloud. Moving your lips and tongue would be quite uncomfortable because they would keep coming into and going out of contact with the barbed wire. I may be wrong....but I think this was her meaning.

I was just about to post this same explanation. The advice was to use barbed wire in the mouth.

Many saints engaged in what might be called "holy follies". They did things which were somewhat imprudent. Very often they subsequently repented of these imprudences, and they never encouraged others to try them.

Using barbed wire in the mouth seems to me to definitely cross the line and to be very imprudent. It could also lead to infection. Also, is there not a risk that the "bit" could be swallowed? Surely this is life threatening?

Most people who read or who contribute to these forums are in favour of physical mortifications and recognise that they can play an important role in the spiritual life. But we must also recognise that there are limits, and using barbed wire in the mouth goes beyond those limits (there may be exceptions in some instances, but they are EXCEPTIONS).

Prayer and ordinary physical mortification will win for us the grace to overcome temptation. I think it is a mistake to think that we must design extreme physical penances for each individual temptation. Otherwise many people would end up mutilating themselves like Origen!

[Maravillas]

Hi Scholastica,
I agree with you when talking about blood fleeding, but you shall notice that when using barbed-wire or such items (I never used it but my metallic cilice does the same, I guess), no blood really pours. It can only make some little bloody points, as if you had stung yourself with a very fine needle, and most of the time it doesn't bleed at all.
But did you understand what MariePierre means by "a bit of barbed wire" ? She hasn't answered our questions yet, and I don't really know what she means (is it to make a cilice, around waist or arm or thigh, with barbed wire ? I don't know)

This kind of method worked with Blaise Pascal, if I remember well. He used to wear a waist cilice with little metallic points, and when he felt tempted to do a sin (anger, pride, etc.) he discretly moved to make this belt hurt him...so he could avoid the sin !

I wish it would be so easy for me, unfortunately it doesn't work fine with anger, because these sins aren't "premeditate" and I don't have enough time to realize I'm going to offend God. If only I had, I wouldn't do it, obviously.
Perhaps I should seriously try Blaise's method, and it would be efficient after some time ?

Blue Tit: If you do not have time to realise that you are going to offend God, then your anger cannot be a mortal sin. Once you realise that it is offending God then obviously it becomes a mortal sin. We are not responsible for our immediate emotional reactions because they are not willed. We are responsible if we indulge in them or fail to control them when it is possible to control them.